Germany. Switzerland. Japan. Singapore. South Korea. France. USA. Stage director Marshall Pynkoski and choreographer Jeannette Lajeunesse Zingg are no strangers to long-distance travel. Touring Canada’s premier early opera company, Opera Atelier, which they have managed as both founders and co-artistic directors since 1985; frequently engaged by major arts festivals and opera houses around the world as independent creative specialists, the pair has earned joint international reputations for excellence, critically acclaimed, long and loudly applauded by audiences.
Recently returned to Toronto from double engagements in France and Germany, the two seemingly tireless creative adventurers shared a host of insights — personal and professional both — amassed over the past, particularly eventful decade in a candid, wide-ranging conversation with Opera Going Toronto on the eve of Canada Day.
* * *
OperaGoTO:
So Lucio Silla at Salzburg in 2013, then later for La Scala in 2015. Ricciardo e Zoraide at Pesaro, the Rossini Festival, in 2018. Versailles, of course — the Grétry companion pieces, Coeur de Lion in 2019 and again in 2021. Caravane du Caire this year at the Royal Opera and David and Jonathan at the Royal Chapel last year and again earlier this June at Potsdam. That’s a good deal of production.
Pynkoski:
I should mention, as well, before we did the Caravane du Caire at Versailles, we did it for Opéra de Tours just a year ago. That was a co-production instigated by Versailles but it premiered at Tours then at Versailles one year later.
OperaGoTO:
Thank you. That one fell through the cracks when I was doing my sleuthing. So all of these productions were undertaken by companies other than Opera Atelier, obviously. I just wonder how that kind of freelance experience, working abroad in Europe, compares to working on shows that you’ve programmed and mounted personally, the two of you, here in Toronto.
Pynkoski:
Working in Toronto is always going to be the ideal because we are surrounded by a group who we have worked with over such an extended period of time. People like David Fallis (music director). Gerard Gauci (set designer). Singers who have grown up with us. And dancers. It’s an incredible relationship. Much more like a repertory company. But, that said, the audience in Europe is so much larger. The classical arts — opera, ballet — are such an integral part of people’s lives. It’s a completely different world in terms of the opportunities that are there for us. We’ve been able to explore productions in Europe that we wouldn’t be able to explore here. Like Lucio Silla. Knowing what a huge success it was, seeing the audience response and the critical response, it gave us the confidence to do it here in Toronto.
Zingg:
I agree. The work in Toronto is always going to be our central focus. That is work that we have conceived from the ground up. It really is a labour of love from beginning to end. But I think, again, as Marshall said, the audience response in Europe has been a bit of a barometer for us in knowing what we can bring here. It’s also been a huge confidence builder and very helpful in terms of our reputation in Canada, as well.
Pynkoski:
And also, of course, we’re given the room to be able to explore because we’re not having to come up with the funding for something like David and Jonathan. We end up with a very luxurious rehearsal period where we really are able to investigate this repertoire in tremendous detail. Not to mention working with designers like Christian Lacroix. It’s thrilling.
OperaGoTO:
Do you ever wish you had the opportunity to be able to spend even more time on the Continent? Something perhaps approaching a residency with a large, well-established, well funded artistic company?
Pynkoski:
We feel as though we have that in a way, although we would not call it a residency. On a yearly basis, we’re in France. Sometimes it’s twice a year. It’s interesting that you should say that because a number of occasions over the years I’ve thought, “Oh, wouldn’t it be wonderful to live in France AND live in Toronto!” But then — it was some time ago now —when we were in Versailles. We have an apartment where we stay whenever we’re there. And I was walking down the street and I thought, “Wonderful to live here? What are you saying! We ARE living here! We’re buying groceries! We’re rehearsing!” I think there comes a point, when you just have to sort of step back and take a very realistic look at what your life is, otherwise you spend your whole life waiting for the “real” thing to happen. We may not have a mortgage in France, but we are living in France. And we are living in Toronto. I consider both to be our home.
Zingg:
The idea of a residency. Marshall and I have always said, from the word go, that we would never do a piece that we didn’t love. We have the freedom with Opera Atelier to choose the repertoire. Once you have a residency, would we have to do endless Madame Butterflys or something? I don’t know. We tend to do unusual pieces that have not been seen very often and they’re pieces that we adore. I think that’s one of the reasons why our work, I hope, is always fresh and the audience always finds new things to enjoy.
Pynkoski:
What we really need is to be on an even more solid financial footing at Opera Atelier. There is no cushion. There is no war chest. We’re on the edge of our seats all the time which is why it’s so marvellous when we go to Versailles or Salzburg or wherever — it takes a couple weeks for it to kick in — we have nothing to worry about. All we need to do is schedule and rehearse.
OperaGoTO:
Does the fact that you’ve both received the Order of Arts and Letters in France and that you’ve both become something of upholders of French patrimony, do you think you bring anything of the Canadian perspective to your work abroad?
Pynkoski:
We bring heightened organizational skills to our work in Europe. We love the people we work with there but the organization of rehearsal, preparing for production — Europe doesn’t touch what we have in Canada. It’s a whole different way of working. We insist on getting things done and making certain no details are overlooked. I think that’s a real legacy of our Canadian stage management system. We’ve had no pushback. But we do rehearse incredibly intensely in Toronto. Maybe because we’re aware of every penny. So when we arrive in Europe, we continue to rehearse as though we cannot waste a single moment. And that surprises people.
Zingg:
We do get along very well with the performers in France. My lovely little troupe of dancers that we’ve put together comes out year after year for our productions. They never hesitate to agree to return. They obviously do enjoy working in that efficient way because we’re not wasting their time.
OperaGoTO:
Turning to the subject of Opera Atelier-initiated shows. Looking back over the last decade and, of course, we could look back even further. I’ve done a little more sleuthing — looking into relatively recent company visits to France. Armide in 2012. Persée in 2014. Armide again in 2015. Medée in 2017. Actéon and Pygmalion in 2018. All of them to Versailles. It strikes me that all of these shows have subsequently become calling cards that have effectively cemented Opera Atelier’s reputation at home as much as abroad. Do you miss touring with the company? Was it beneficial to Opera Atelier as a whole?
Pynkoski:
Hugely beneficial both in terms of PR but also — when we were doing the largest number of shows — we’d do 5 or 6 performances in Toronto. To be able to extend that so that our artists were able to have the pleasure of doing something 10 times. 12 times. 16 times. It allowed them to grow and explore a role more deeply. From an artistic point of view, we got to know these profound pieces of repertoire intimately so every time we come back to them we feel that we learn something new. And, of course, part of that experience during that time was our debut in Chicago at the Harris Theatre. And Glimmerglass. There is certainly no performing arts company in Canada that has toured internationally the amount that Opera Atelier has.
OperaGoTO:
It’s absolutely true.
Pynkoski:
Unfortunately, because of COVID which affected everyone, the potential to tour a huge production, taking 60 or 70 people — at the moment that simply isn’t possible. I don’t know whether or not we’re going to see that turn around or if we’re living in a different world now. Perhaps that sort of touring will never happen again. We have to wait and see as COVID settles and governments around the world look at funding the arts and how they perceive the arts fitting into each country’s cultural landscape.
OperaGoTO:
Can we discuss the 2023/24 Opera Atelier season? Orpheus and Eurydice. I have a theory about this opera. Or maybe not a theory, more a point of view. So we have an opera written by Gluck around the middle of the 18th century, the music teacher of Marie Antoinette. He resets it for the French stage largely in response to her encouragement. What occurs to me is the degree — it has to be accidental — of irony, approaching allegory that occurs. Marie Antoinette as Eurydice plucked from the Underworld of the stifling Habsburg court. Led to to this shining palace that is Versailles filled with light and Rationalism. Then becoming an object of suspicion and prying eyes which, in large part, leads to her demise and ultimately her death. Is that reading too much into it? Where do the two of you come down on the subject of history and this piece.
Zingg:
Well, as Oscar Wilde said, “Life imitates art.” Although we’re not particularly thinking of a historical parallel in our production.
Pynkoski:
Certainly it makes sense that it developed the way that it did with the patronage of Marie Antoinette. The thing is, I think by the time you get to Orfeo, despite the fact that we’re dealing with gods and goddesses, there’s something extremely domestic about the whole thing. I feel as though with Orfeo, although it changes the musical landscape and theatre landscape of France, there’s something contained about the story. I see that being mirrored throughout the late 18th century in France. All the values that the people held as immutable — things that could never change. Of course, everything WAS changing. And I think that people started to retreat, trying to find safety, in a sense, of who they were. Jeanette and I were looking at the private apartments of Marie Antoinette in Versailles that have just been opened to the public. Gorgeous rooms with low ceilings — tiny rooms but with magnificent details. I don’t think that things like that exist on an island on their own.
OperaGoTO:
History aside, there is a kind of timelessness about this opera, too, isn’t there? Not only the music which seems so fresh even today but a kind of eternalness about the myth itself. Hadestown, the musical — a contemporary retelling of Orfeo that’s currently playing in the city. Black Orpheus, the 60s film, that set the Orpheus and Eurydice myth in the favelas of Rio. There is a kind of timeless reach to this piece, isn’t there?
Pynkoski:
This myth is in our DNA. The desperation to believe that there is a world beyond this world. That somehow life doesn’t end. I think this story, this opera encapsulates that in an absolutely profound way.
OperaGoTO:
No question. All Is Love. I had a look back through my notes from 2022 and the last time you and I talked, Marshall, was the day after your dress rehearsal at Koerner Hall. I remember that night so well. There was a blinding sleet storm. The Occupy Convoy had rolled into town. Bloor Street was blocked at Avenue Road. I really honestly hope you have a whole lot better luck with fate this time around than last.
Pynkoski:
It was incredible. Everything conspired to keep people away. You know, Jeannette and Gerard and I — we couldn’t get on the subway that night. The subways were closed. We couldn’t get a cab. We ended up having to walk home for blocks in that outrageous storm. We weren’t dressed for it. We weren’t prepared for it. And yet we were so happy. It was so exhilarating. Emotionally that night was so fraught. The very fact that we were all there after COVID — that we were able to work with each other on stage again — was so liberating. I think that really translated into a unique experience.
OperaGoTO:
It was palpable. One of the highlights of your concert drama, of course, is the electrifying extract from Pelléas and Mélisande which I know occupies a place of great affection in your hearts. Are we moving, hopefully, towards a more fully developed version of the work?
Pynkoski:
We’ve discussed this at length with both David Fallis but also with Christopher Bagan who was responsible for creating that new performing edition. Tafelmusik is dying to continue with this piece of repertoire. We just have to allow our audience to come back entirely so we can understand where are we in terms of subscriptions. Where are we in terms of sales so we can take that sort of risk — that wonderful French thing that it feels like it’s falling through your fingers. You can’t hold onto it. Something impressionistic. We don’t need to reinterpret what the surrealist narrative is. We want to understand WHAT it is. We want to immerse ourselves in that world. And use that as our catalyst. We want to let Pelléas live and breathe on its own and create a world riddled with atmosphere that we can learn from. It comes back to what Jeannette said. We produce what we love. We love the drama. We love the music. We certainly do not understand it perfectly any more than we understood French baroque repertoire when we first started to produce it.
OperaGoTO:
Perfect segue. One last question. When the two of you were working at the Moulin Rouge in Paris to support yourselves, lo these many years, researching French baroque ballet and performance in your off-hours, did you ever have a sense that all the time and passion that you were pouring into your art form would lead you practically to where you are today? Did you have a sense, even then, that this was a neglected area that was hugely under-appreciated and that it had the potential, eventually, for mass audience rediscovery?
Zingg:
You’re second thought, yes. We certainly felt that these works should be seen, that they were phenomenal, but while we were researching we had no idea where it would lead. We simply loved it and we thought perhaps it would be part of what we did and we’d have to do other things. We had no idea it would turn into a full-time career. We thank God every day that it did. We can hardly believe how fortunate we are.